BBC presenter Emma Barnett clashed with cabinet minister Pat McFadden this morning over Labour’s refusal to clarify who it intends to tax more in the upcoming Budget.
Before they got into power, the party promised not to raise taxes for “working people”, particularly when it comes to VAT, income tax and National Insurance contributions.
But the government is now widely expected to raise National Insurance for employers – prompting further speculation over just who the party were pledging to protect in their manifesto.
Two days before the Treasury reveals its financing plans in the government Budget, BBC Radio 4 host Barnett reminded McFadden of this confusion from Labour.
She asked: “Can you understand why you have alienated and annoyed some people?”
“I don’t think it’s about a definition of wages, it’s about keeping your promises and we will keep our promises when the Budget takes place on Wednesday,” he said.
But Barnett hit back: “You’re not being honest now! You can’t answer the question. What are people called who are making money and going to pay more tax if they are not working people, can you name them?”
He just said the public could expect the “most honest Budget that you’ve had in many years” and end the “fiscal fiction” of things being announced without proper financial backing.
“Why can’t you answer the question?” Barnett asked.
He said it will be clear that Labour have stuck to their promises when the Budget is unveiled and rejected Barnett’s claim that Labour have broken a manifesto pledge by planning to raise NIC for employers.
She said Today’s listeners just want to know who would be facing extra taxes, adding: “I say to you, are working people who are picking up the extra tax bill not working people, and you can’t answer that.”
Barnett then quoted an article from chancellor Rachel Reeves who claimed on Sunday that this Budget would be for “strivers” – and alluded to PM Keir Starmer’s claim that landlords did not fit the “working people” definition.
She asked: “Are those people who are not deemed working people, like landlords – by this government – are they not strivers?”
He replied: “Look when we make these decisions, we are not talking about picking out one set of people or another.
“We’re trying to do this in a fair way, we made promises in the manifesto about income taxes, National Insurance, VAT.
“We will keep those promises when the chancellor gets to her feet on Wednesday.”
“Do you accept you have annoyed some people who are going to pay more by describing them as not working people, do you accept that?” The presenter pushed.
He began to say the public should be annoyed with the “fiscal fiction” from the previous Tory government, but she cut in: “They’re annoyed with you!”
Barnett continued: “If you’ve annoyed people, then telling them what to be annoyed about is not really the way to go because I’ve put to you that don’t you want people to want to invest in public services?”
She accused him of effectively “using word play around public taxes” and leaving people “alienated and annoyed”.
“No government gets to choose the circumstances in which they come to office,” The minister replied.
But Barnett said: “They want to be motivated by leadership, and they don’t want to feel necessarily penalised, isolated or annoyed.”
He said they would see leadership on Wednesday when the Budget is unveiled.