Reform UK’s new chairperson clashed repeatedly with BBC Question Time’s host Fiona Bruce last night over what his party would actually do to reduce small boat crossings.
Zia Yusuf was quick to say the Conservatives’ plan to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda was a “bone-headed” idea because the then-government paid £230m for it upfront.
It’s worth noting that Yusuf was a paid-up member of the Conservative Party until August, despite being revealed as the Reform UK chair in July.
However, he also defended the scheme on Question Time, saying it was still a “deterrent” – and then lambasted Labour for scrapping it when they got into power “for no apparent reason”.
Bruce cut in: “So what you’re saying is, on one hand there shouldn’t be the Rwanda plan, but now Labour have got rid of it, you’re criticising them as well.
“So you want it both ways.”
“Two things can be true at the same time,” he said and claimed Reform would want to remove the European Convention of Human Rights and create a British Bill of Human Rights in its place.
He said Reform would ensure that “anyone who come to this country illegally cannot be granted asylum,” and that the party would send boats back to France en masse.
Bruce said: “What you’re suggesting is that on one hand, there shouldn’t be the Rwanda plan – but there should be be the Rwanda plan?
“And when it comes to boats, you’re suggesting en masse people who come over on small boats should be picked up and put on the shore in France.
“You think the French government would accept that?” she asked with incredulity.
He acknowledged it would be a “difficult” conversation, to which the host added: “To say to the least.”
Several people in the audience were also quick to jump on Yusuf’s comments, with one woman pointing out you have to be on UK soil to legally claim asylum here.
“Are you saying that if Reform were in charge there would be no asylum seeking in the UK?” She asked.
The Reform chair replied: “No I didn’t say that, what we need is a coherent immigration policy rather than a shambolic one.”
But when Bruce asked what exactly that would entail, he just said “sensible” control over our borders was necessary.
“Any idea what that might be?” the host asked again.
The Reform UK chairman then talked about the UK’s “open borders and soft-touch welfare state”.
A separate audience member then piped up to slam Yusuf.
She said: “It’s rich coming from a very hypothetical position – which I feel Reform is coming from – we’ve had Labour, we’ve had Conservative governments trying to sort out and actually reinforce our borders.
“And to Fiona’s point, what would be the policy, I didn’t hear a strong policy from Reform to say what they would actually do?”
Applause broke out at that – only for Yusuf to angrily hit back: “Clearly another representative BBC Question Time audience, given Reform won 14% of the vote.”
Noises of outrage broke out across the room at that, and Bruce said: “I’m just going to stop you there, Zia.
“We have a representative proportion of people in here who voted Reform,” she said, and two people put their hands up to show support for Nigel Farage’s party.
Reform has repeatedly declared it has ambitions to get its leader into No.10 in the next five years, despite only having five MPs right now.