Mishal Husain
The pair clashed when it came to the health secretary's promises to implement change in the sector.
The Today programme host repeatedly pressed the Tory leadership candidate for details over his bizarre remark.
The presenter was accused of not treating “both candidates equally when managing the debate” by some viewers.
"I can take you to streets in Oldham where no one speaks English," the new leader of Reform said.
The Today programme host burst the chancellor's bubble with a stark reminder of the last two years.
"You're basing what you're saying on incomplete information," the Radio 4 presenter pointed out to the ex-home secretary.
The Today programme host asked why "no action was taken" earlier over the Mark Menzies allegations.
"You seemed to dodge that question," the BBC Radio 4 presenter pointed out.
Listeners may have been surprised to hear "sh*t" so many times on the morning BBC programme.
The home secretary accused the Today programme presenter of using "retrospective maths".