Suella Braverman
The former home secretary was left scrambling for two and a half very painful minutes.
The former home secretary trails well behind her rival Penny Mordaunt.
Trevor Phillips said "it's just a fact" there are still ongoing struggles to control illegal immigration.
But the former home secretary does not want a change of Tory leadership, despite the party's devastating performance in the local elections.
"You're basing what you're saying on incomplete information," the Radio 4 presenter pointed out to the ex-home secretary.
Rishi Sunak's flagship reform is supported by most voters.
The former home secretary said the prime minister needs to "change course".
Suella Braverman said she was "disappointed" at the move.
MPs from across the party have urged the PM to ditch the policy.
The prime minister says there is a "growing consensus" that Britain is descending into lawlessness.